does john boehner have the votes to match that? >> the white house figures he will portray himself as the chapel yofnt middle class and the republicans are going out for the rift and he feels he can largely beat hem into submission. when they sit down to the bargaining table they might make some changes but he will want to come out of these negotiations as having largely won them and leaving scraps for the republicans. what the republicans have to hit back with is the way you increase revenues is by having rising incomes. you don't get that by higher taxes on a weakening economy. bill: the president plans to open the talks using his most recent budget proposal. wasn't that the budget that got zero votes in the senate? >> he's going to exploit it for all it's worth. you could come to an agreement using bowles and simpson and reducing rates so everyone declares victory. you have got more revenue but the rates don't go up. but i don't think the president is interested in that. if you had normal people doing this. this president web ma